Hmm...

[ksmith]

So yesterday, justinelavaworm discussed a panel she and matociquala, among others, participated in during which discussions of class were attempted/danced around/not quite followed through on. Then I saw this line in today's entry in Jane Espenson's blog:

You know how, in this country, the most visible, and most reliable, indicator of a person's social class is the condition of their teeth?

and I started thinking about outward indications of social class.

Not sure about teeth. A former manager, who came from upper-middle PacNorWet money, had one of the worst sets of choppers I had ever seen. But then, he had a casual attitude about a lot of things, including money. In a way, this casualness typed him as surely as Jane's perfect teeth.

Hands are supposed to be another indicator--their condition and the style of manicure. Shoes. Hair style. Weight.

I don't have time to go into this now, and I'm not sure what I'd say if I did except that I find it all pretty interesting.

Comments

[mt-yvr.livejournal.com]

A similar vein of things... skin art.

I work in a hospital, I my job is computer technical support. I wear jeans, biker boots, sometimes (like today) I wear tank tops. And I've got a few lines of skin art. (lol)

I've been asked a couple of times, in those odd silences of elevator rides wherein total strangers seem compelled to talk, which renovation or construction project I'm part of. When I smile and point at my staff badge and mention my job there is usually a moment of brain twitching. Of course that's because there is a perception of the 'kind of person who has tattoos' as well as 'does construction work'.

Indicators of class are more and more shifting from "what they used to mean" to something else. It fascinates me, though, that you've not once denied there's a class structure. I have a hard time talking with some friends as they seem determined to believe there is no such thing.

[kristine-smith.livejournal.com]

There is a class structure. There is some ability to move up (and down), but other things seem to be bred in the bone.

I mean, I live in a country where we deny the existence of class while at the same time we co-opt another country's royals and try to create our own (boy, that didn't work, did it?). Given the apparent human preference/need/whatever for hierarchy and measuring sticks and competition...it would be a wonderment if we didn't have class structure.

[mt-yvr.livejournal.com]

(nodnodnod) We sooo agree here. It's been my point for ages, despite what Canadians might like to think about themselves in our efforts to distance our culture from others, we ARE a classist society.

But then I more and more believe that there would have to be an incredible shift to remove classes from society. It almost appears inherent.

[kristine-smith.livejournal.com]

I don't see a classless society emerging unless we completely retool attitudes toward merit, money, clout, influence, and status. Beauty. Given that we're social animals, I don't see it happening...unless a certain upper class retools worker bees to be content with their lot. I think we'd see more support for stem cell research if industry felt they could use it to build a better worker.

I'm only half-kidding.

I enjoy stories about class differences. Austen is all about that. Dominic Dunne's books. Walter Jon Williams touches on that a little bit with his Allowed Burgler novels--a burgler trainee copies the way his aristo boss speaks, but realizes toward the end that he will never learn all the nuances necessary, that he will never 'pass' in that society.

I touch on it a little bit in the Jani books with the accent differences. Earthbound vs colony. The odd inconsistency may creep in, but I always try to make sure that Jani says "maybe". Lucien, Evan van Reuter, and anyone from a Family will say "perhaps."

[mt-yvr.livejournal.com]

See, I'd noticed that in the books. (grin) I'm learnin', I is.

And I'm only half kidding when I agree they probably would.

I guess one of the reasons it fascinates me is that I've run through several different classes in my life. My father was born poor Irish trash in NY city, married the daughter of Old Moneyed family that slowly was sliding into upper middle class. So I grew up with the strong push to live as upper class (which they achieved as Michael - father - became acclaimed for his career) and yet there was always an underlying fear of poverty. And living in rural areas, much of my childhood was surrounded by people who were born of labourers.

And so on. I've never enjoyed a particular class over an another, but I feel comfortable in almost any setting.

I think it's why I tend toward writing characters that could live in wealth and privilege.. but don't. A sense of perspective seems to be something hard to hold on to, I personally value it in people.

[kristine-smith.livejournal.com]

My dad was blue collar. Mom was pink collar. Farmers, shopkeepers, and working stiffs on both sides. One distant relative on my dad's side apparently used to own land that either became an important intersection in Buffalo NY or part of the University. In any event, they apparently sold the land for a fraction of what it was worth because they were of the type that believed that a penny in the hand now was worth more than a dollar in 20 years.

This tells you all you need to know about my dad's side of the family.

One distant relation fell off a boat and almost drowned in the Niagara River. Turned out she was weighted down by a money belt filled with gold coins.

I watch from afar. I find it fascinating. Certain accoutrements--a good handbag, a good coat--give me a sense of security in meetings.