One More Detour on the Writing Road

I was actually thinking about this while reading the latest Jani book and it seemed to me that it was an amalgamation of the way in which some people are scared of people who they see as foreign/alien, as she is, quite literally, an other, and the way some people are scared of people with lots of tattoos or piercings or hair that's dyed "unnatural" colors, as it wasn't something she was born with, but something that she is as a result of modifications to her body. I don't think there's anything to be scared of in her - at least not in that regard - but I can certainly see where it would come from.

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I think Jani's also attuned to people's perceptions of her because as a colonial, she's used to getting the short end of the stick. She's used to people who controlled her future considering her not quite the thing.

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That does come across as well, though in a completely different way than it does with Niall. Of course, if I've been reading the story arc correctly, it looks like he's going to break out of some of that in the coming book, as well, so I'm very much looking fora=ward to seeing how that comes about.

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Jani throws it back in their faces, while Niall tries to conform. Funny that they manage to get along as well as they do.

Hmmmm...I'm not 100% sure what Niall will do in J5, although he will be a driver in the beginning, and involved throughout. It's that mess in the middle that complicates...

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Not so funny as all that. They understand something fundamental about eachother. It's what makes them inverses of eachother. In fact, it's so deeply rooted in them that I'm really not sure what it would take to sever that connection irrevocably. Even while they spent most of the last book in opposition to eachother, you could still see that things weren't finished.

As for what will happen to Niall in the next book, I'd assume you certainly know better than I, but the thing that I've been rooting for is for him to find some sort of solace.

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>Not so funny as all that. They understand something fundamental about eachother. It's >what makes them inverses of eachother. In fact, it's so deeply rooted in them that I'm >really not sure what it would take to sever that connection irrevocably. Even while they >spent most of the last book in opposition to eachother, you could still see that things >weren't finished.

A friend calls them 'two old souls'. So much alike that they're almost too much alike. Never truly restful in one another's company because they know one another too well--neither can hide much from the other.

>As for what will happen to Niall in the next book, I'd assume you certainly know better >than I,

Heh--don't be too sure. Sometimes that understanding doesn't come until 2 drafts later.

>but the thing that I've been rooting for is for him to find some sort of solace.

He deserves a break.

Something else to think about...

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He deserves a break.

Something else to think about...

This has caused me to wonder: what would he do, if he didn't do what he does? And I really can't think of a good answer.

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Indeed. At this point, he thrives on order, and possesses a fundamental belief in systems that Jani discarded long ago.

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Thanks--I didn't realize you read her! Here's my take--not sure if it meshes with your assessment or not.

Well, she's tall, physically imposing, and tends to cut to the chase--if you get in her way she will run over you. Also, you see Jani in deep third person, so you spend a lot of time inside her head, seeing her as she sees herself rather than how others see her. No one has seen her during the lean years, when she did whatever she had to in order to survive--you get a hint of what she's capable of in CODE when she considerd sleeping with Durian Ridgeway if necessary to keep him off her back. She spent almost 20 years doing lots of things she isn't proud of, and I think that affected her opinion of herself. She knows she can be a hardcase and as a consequence doesn't consider herself likable or for that matter, worth very much as a person. She's started to come around, but it's been a struggle.

There's a lot of self-punishment there as well, due to guilt. I'm sure she could give a therapist a lot with which to work, and battle them every step of the way.

Glad you like her, though.

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>Well, she's tall, physically imposing, and tends to cut to >the chase--if you get in her way she will run over you.

Among other things, Jani's got that fundamental ruthlessness that separates leaders from everyone else. Most people will quail at the human cost of their goal - whether the cost is to be borne by themselves or others - and scale down their goals. The kind of leader Jani is may care, and care deeply, about the cost, but will pay it without hesitation - and can change the world(s) because of that.

That kind of ruthlessness towards self and others seems gut-level frightening to many people - in part because it can slide quite naturally into the sociopathic, in part because it means someone *you'd* never ask to go out on point might ask that sacrifice of you - or might ask you to sacrifice your attachment to them by going out on point themselves.

The willingness to risk loss, disruption, chaos is terrifying to many. I'm at a university whose President has a Jani-ish unconcern with breaking rice bowls, and he's struck fear and hatred into those who value comfort over achievement... which seems so be pretty much everybody, alas....

...and it wouldn't surprise me if those who don't are genre fiction fans, who spend time in the company, real or imagined, of people willing to embrace the extraordinary.

Oh, and I have to wonder if there's any neutral ground in response to someone like Jani - is it either fear and hatred or lust and devotion? I suspect so, that neutrality's impossible - but I'm too far over into the "lust & devotion" camp to have any perspective...

So, go Kris, and give 'em hell Jani!

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>Among other things, Jani's got that fundamental ruthlessness that separates leaders >from everyone else. Most people will quail at the human cost of their goal - whether the >cost is to be borne by themselves or others - and scale down their goals. The kind of >leader Jani is may care, and care deeply, about the cost, but will pay it without >hesitation - and can change the world(s) because of that.

I never served in the military, which was one reason why I wrote a character who (I felt) didn't belong in the military--antiauthoritarian, not driven by any sense of loyalty to her government or C-wealth. There were other factors. But I also wrote her as the opposite of me, as someone who acts quickly, considers the major points, picks an option, and moves, because I wanted to write stories that moved.

I didn't think I had written a character who could function as an officer, but a fan email from a retired colonel indicated otherwise. He had served in Vietnam and Bosnia, and liked Jani for her decisiveness. She made a decision, did what she had to, and moved on. He thought her a good role model, and he wasn't the only ex-military reader who thought her officer material.

This made me feel great, needless to say, but it stunned me too because the only sense I have of that mindset is from its opposite. I am sooo not officer material.

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>He thought her a good role model, and he wasn't the >only ex-military reader who thought her officer >material.

>This made me feel great, needless to say, but it >stunned me too because the only sense I have of >that mindset is from its opposite. I am sooo not >officer material.

LOL! The colonel's absolutely right, IMO. But this is what makes you a good writer, being able to get so deeply into an alien mindset.

I wonder - is it your natural bent away from the Jani-type that allows you to paint your reactionaries so convincingly, or is that also just damn good use of POV?

Me, I'm deeply schizoid on the matter, which is why all those quizzes come out "loves bunnies, bent on world domination." And that dichotomy drives a lot of my wip - one of the core conflicts is between the old guard, who won't go to the wall, and so let a crisis escalate, and the young turks who want a *solution,* even with a little egg-breaking.

Deeply fascinating stuff -

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>I wonder - is it your natural bent away from the Jani-type that allows you to paint your >reactionaries so convincingly, or is that also just damn good use of POV?

Not sure. All I know is that Jani is all about change, and never allowing anyone time to get their feet under them. That would drive me crazy--I need time to catch my breath on occasion. Anyone who thrives on/prefers stability/the status quo would not like Jani. A reactionary who not only wanted to maintain the status quo but wanted to take things *back* to another, less fraught (to them) time would find her that much more upsetting.

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trolleypup.livejournal.com

fear and hatred or lust and devotion

If not neutrality, very strong wariness? I find her fun from a distance...working with her would be terrifying, working against her likewise. Way to much excitement for me. I suspect there are a large number of people who have a strong desire to admire her (in a positive or negative way) from a distance safe from splashes.

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>I suspect there are a large number of people who >have a strong desire to admire her (in a positive >or negative way) from a distance safe from splashes.

A veeery prudent reaction! It's really interesting to hear - I've been getting the sense that my reactions to the type are pretty far from baseline (see also: Doesn't Learn From Experience, as he changes into dry clothes *again*...).

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galeni.livejournal.com

I started reading her when the second book came out, and then bought the others as I found them (and then found Amazon). I can't remember if I discovered it on a shelf or saw you (on GEnie?) first and picked it up. In fact, I ended up with two copies of one of them because I'd forgotten I'd stashed it in another room. (All bought new, so, like, you care!)

Jani's inability to accept that anyone cares is irritating to me, but I do like her. And Niall is equally frustrating because he seems to be -only- camoflage and not person except when he's with Jani, and only maybe then. Working two layers below them would be fun. Working with or (gawd forbid) above them would be hell. But Niall would make a very uncomfortable lover, I think, if he ever really -saw- you and not just the particular challenge you might represent.

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Never played on GEnie--I think it was on its way out about the time I joined SFFNet, late 1998. I recall reading the complaints about billing and such as the whole thing wound down.

Sounds like it was fun while it lasted, though.

Thanks for buying--new books are Good!

>Jani's inability to accept that anyone cares is irritating >to me, but I do like her. And Niall is equally frustrating >because he seems to be -only- camoflage and not person >except when he's with Jani, and only maybe then.

I think he's himself with Jani, as he is with Mako or anyone who shares his secret. I think his problem with Jani, which is one that would prevent them from ever being lovers (yes, I considered it), is that he doesn't feel he deserves her friendship. It's a challenge, but of a different sort. He aspires to her standards, and feels that he doesn't quite measure up. He finally brushes some of the stardust from his eyes in CI, but even then it's difficult for him. Like Jani, he's not happy unless he's beating his head against the wall about something.

>Working >two layers below them would be fun. Working with >or (gawd >forbid) above them would be hell. But Niall would >make a >very uncomfortable lover, I think, if he ever >really -saw- >you and not just the particular challenge you >might >represent.

Again, I think he would see the challenge more from his side--what can I do to prove that I deserve this woman, rather than what do I have to do to win this woman? I think he'd be a very romantic, cultured lover. Many opera/concert dates and museum visits, lots of intellectual discussion. I see his girlfriends as university professors, museum curators, collectors. Intelligent, possibly high-maintenance women who would bail when they realized that while they had Niall's heart and mind, another woman had, and always would have, his soul.

Not that I think about this sort of thing much.

Kris, who could rattle on about her characters for *days*

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It's the old analog kind, alas, but it's right on point with the personality areas we've been talking about. Kris, if you go, I'd be *really* curious to see what you get if you answer as Jani... http://www.livejournal.com/users/ro_astarte/

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I can't figure out which quiz it is--what day is it posted under?

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>Subject: Re: another quiz
>I can't figure out which quiz it is--what day is it >posted under?

sorry... looks like it was a busy quiz night. April 11, 7:50 pm

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I see a post gap between Apr 7 and Apr 14, which might mean the message containing the quiz was limited to Friends only

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